Mealworm help
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Hi Nic
Thank you for your reply
You posted this which seems to me to be an endorsement of calci-worms
Personally I would not feed too many calci-worms at a time to hogs – you could be exchanging one addiction for another, even though it appears (currently) to be a less harmful one. But less harmful for them to eat calci-worms spilt by the birds than mealworms.
You refer to them as less harmful but you don’t advise not feeding them at all. You say “I would not feed too many calci-worms at a time to hogs”. In other words you would still feed them to hedgehogs.
Their advice is they are very harmful and should not be fed to hedgehogs.
The post I referred was from their Twitter feed. If you check there you will see they have engaged on this matter with others.
I don’t know if you can see link with a photo of their advice on this below. This is posted as a photo on their twitter site.
https://twitter.com/HedgehogCabin/status/1371564635317501956/photo/1
I am sure she would be very happy to respond if you dm her on twitter, by contact form on website at the bottom of the home page or by phone (listed on How You Can Help).
Thanks again for responding
Jervis
You may not have noticed, Jervis, that that post is over a year old. At that time there was little if any information around about calci-worms. There is not even a great deal around now. You are only quoting one source and no scientific research. Without that, I am in no position to advise not feeding them at all, even if I personally have reservations about them. All I can do is relay my reservations. It is not even universally accepted that mealworms should not be fed to hedgehogs at all, let alone that calci-worms should not be fed, even in small amounts as part of a balanced mix.
Perhaps you should direct your complaints to someone who thinks feeding calci-worms in any quantities is o.k., rather than someone who has been expressing reservations about them.
Off on a slight tangent but has anyone here tried dried crickets? I experimented with some last year but got no joy. Even the magpies didn’t seem interested. I still have an unopened pack of them. I was going to try soaking some in water and trying again but never got round to it. On paper they look a good candidate for hog food in addition to the usual stuff but maybe they are just a bit too big and hard work for them in a dried form?
Hi Bassman
Sadly dried crickets also reportedly have a poor calcium phosphorous ratio. So perhaps just as well the hogs didn’t like them! I would suggest not a good idea offering them to the hedgehogs, soaked or otherwise.
At risk of sounding like a broken record, hogs do not need treats in addition to the normal supplementary feed (i.e. cat/dog/hog food) we offer.
PLEASE , please, please ONLY ever feed hedgehogs wet or dry cat or dog food and give ONLY water to drink.
They’re wild animals and do need treats or substitutes. Cat and dog food has everything they need. One of the best is Tesco kitten biscuits. They’re only 75p a box. It’s really that simple and the kindest thing to do. One of the best websites to refer to for all things hedgehogs is , HEDGEHOG CABIN, I think a link has already been posted on this thread. Thanks !Sad to hear that. In that case I can only suggest you talk directly to @HedgehogCabin. They are very clear calci-worms are not good under any circumstances, as well as mealworms.
Further to my earlier posts @hedgehogcabin has posted this link which features advice on mealworms, definitely not acceptable. Please talk to them if you are unsure of their advice re calci-worms http://www.valewildlife.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Feeding-wild-hedgehogs.pdf
Give it a break @Jervis You are attacking the wrong person. I have probably done more than most on this Forum to encourage people not to feed mealworms and be cautious about calci-worms – over a long period of time. I realise this might have become your new hobby-horse, but I have been encouraging people to feed hedgehogs properly probably before you even heard of calci-worms.
Your energies would be much better spent targeting someone who thought it was o.k. to feed calci-worms regardless, not to mention mealworms.
And by the way, I hardly think I was endorsing calci-worms by saying “Feeding calci-worms as a treat, it seems to me, could potentially be changing one harmful addiction for another.” It is nonsensical to suggest such a thing.
I would also like to point out that I have linked that feeding advice from Vale Wildlife numerous times on the Forum, (although it doesn’t actually mention anything about calci-worms). Perhaps you need to do your research a bit better and read posts properly before targeting someone inappropriately.
Give it a break?! I simply suggested you discuss this with the person who runs a rescue centre. You don’t want to do that. End of.
I can vouch for Nic she has always advised against mealworms and promoted good gardening practice to provide natural food.
I do personally think the whole mealworm debate has got out of hand. I feed them to the hogs here but we are talking 10-15 thrown down on the patio. Some go in to cracks and crevices and it keeps the hogs occupied trying to get them out. Sometimes I throw a little cooked chicken out but the main item is cat biscuit.
No way is 10-15 mealworms shared between two hogs harmful or chicken or the odd sunflower kernel. I would rather the hogs be in my garden being well cared for than in someone else’s being terrorised by a dog, burn’t alive under a bonfire or searching for food further afield and thus being run over.
Be sensible don’t go crazy by feeding a mountain of mealworms every night, that is not healthy.
I like snickers from time to time but i’m not daft enough to have a plate full of them every day.
I’m not saying what I do is correct but I do what I think is in the best interests of the hedgehogs.You are completely out of order @Jervis You have absolutely no idea who I do or do not have conversations with! Nor are you in any position to say what I want to do or otherwise! This is not social media – this is a Forum where people try to help each other to help hedgehogs normally in a friendly manner.
If you are trying to help hedgehogs, being antagonistic towards and mis-representing other people who are trying to help them is completely the wrong way to go about it. I would say you have all the time been preaching to the converted (which you would have realised had you had taken the time to find out) except that, as it happens, I didn’t need to be converted in the first place. I have always been wary about calci-worms.
I hope that this is indeed the end of your unwarranted attacks. You aren’t doing yourself or hedgehogs any favours by your attitude.
Hardly surprising that there is confusion regarding calci worms. One of the refs (the one from 2016) in the link posted by Jervis contains this :
‘There are proprietary brands of hedgehog food available which have been properly researched, Ark Wildlife or Spike’s for example, and these contain everything needed.’
And if you then go to Ark Wildlife site you will see this list of Ca:P ratios for various foods and their opinion of suitability for hedgehogs
Ark Hedgehog Muesli* 1.9 : 1 EXCELLENT
ArkHedgehog Food Original* 1.6 : 1 EXCELLENT
Ark Calcium Worms* 1.5 : 1 EXCELLENT
Dry Dog Food 1.3 : 1 GOOD
Wet Dog Food 1.2 : 1 GOOD
Dry Cat Food 1.1 : 1 GOOD
Wet Cat Food 1.1 : 1 GOOD
Earthworms 1.0 : 1 GOOD
Peanuts 1.0 : 6 BAD
Sunflower Hearts 1.0 : 7 BAD
Mealworms 1.0 : 15 BADThere is no indication on their site that ‘their’ calci worms are any different to any other brands. Clearly more research needs to be done. Can someone post the original scientific paper which Hedgehog cabin has used to make their minds up about calci worms?
Nearly 2 years ago I sat on a lecture where the findings on mealworms was called into question. There will always be debate on these issues.
However, Vale Wildlife hospital are one of the foremost authorities on hogs these days and it makes total sense to follow advice given by them.As Nic has said more times than I can remember, we are only supplementing a hogs diet, and therefore we should be doing it with healthy food if possible.
As more and more hogs are coming to rely on us as a major source of food, we need to make sure that they get a good diet, but more importantly make their environment sustainable for them.
@Jervis, You don’t seem to be reading Nic’s posts properly – I’m not sure why you are attacking her, she has not advocated giving mealworms or calci worms. In fact she has only ever endorsed cat or dog food and good hog practice in all the years I’ve seen her posts.
This is a site set up to help people understand hogs and to get advice not to attack others. That behaviour will just put people off asking for helpHi Baldwin hedgehog,
With the info we have on mealworms, would you please consider not giving them to the hogs. I’m thinking even if it is just a small handful, it still adds up over time. So could make them I’ll in time. I understand you have their best interest at heart, but can’t help thinking 0 mealworms is best. I think that would be the best and correct thing to do. Thanks! 🙂I switched from mealworms to calciworms a couple of years ago after I became aware of metabolic bone disease. The hogs love them and they just get a few mixed in with the hedgehog nibbles. As with my sunflower seeds and fat balls for the birds I tend to by bulk in everything to reduce the cost. Also, I shop around so have different suppliers for each food type. I currently pay £5.90/kg for Calciworms from Ivel Valley which I think is pretty good. I then pay £1.50/kg for my hedgehog nibbles from Food4WildBirds which is pretty good. I know a lot of people here use Ark wildlife as their main supplier, a bit more expensive but if price is not a concern then why not. I currently have around 3 hogs who have decided to wake up and start emptying the bowels again. Good to see them again. One thing I noticed this year is that they are not so skinny as after last years post hibernation. Maybe they had been coming out for snacks over the winter. I did put water out and some food but assumed it was the field mice and blackbirds that had been sneaking into the feeding stations.
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